In this episode, we’re joined by the founder and CEO of Marmion Recruitment, Janet McGlaughlin. Marmion is a business focused on the honesty, integrity, and transparency of ethical recruitment. Having met at a networking event, Zach and Janet reflect on their business development journey and the practices that shape their decision making. 
Zach Greaves 00:03 
Welcome to Words that Work. My name is Zach Greaves, Founder and Director of Artus Digital Marketing. We're here to empower businesses to tell their story through compelling copywriting and content. And today, I'm delighted to be joined by Janet McGlaughlin, the founder and director of Marmion Recruitment based in Leeds. So welcome to you, Janet and thank you very much for joining me today. 
Janet McGlaughlin 00:28 
Thank you for your invitation. I've been looking forward to this. 
Zach Greaves 00:31 
So, you've been a client of ours for some time and it's great to finally get round to sharing your story with our audience having been on your own podcast, the Ethical Business Podcast. So, the Ethical Business Podcast, you're all about ethical business, what does that mean for your journey? And how did you come to that conclusion? 
Janet McGlaughlin 00:59 
So back in 2014, shortly after I told the guy that I've been working with for a long time and working very hard that I no longer wish to invest any more of my career, what was left of it with him, I sat in my shed thought, what am I going to do with the rest of my career? 
I'd worked very successfully for three other recruitment agencies after leaving a career in nursing. And I thought, what can I do for myself? What am I going to do with the rest of my time, and I decided, I think this is very important when you're setting up a business is do something you're familiar with. So, the thing was, I need to do something that I knew I wish I could be successful in. It was something that I could grow. And it would be something where I'd be able to work with other people because working with other people is really important for me, I don't work alone. And I've always worked with people since leaving school. So, you know, that was really important. 
So, I formed the business on Companies House. And because of a contract, I couldn't do anything really in the industry. I sat and I thought, what’s this business going to look like? And one of the first things that I needed was a name. So, I came up with the name Marmion. And I think I've shared this with you, Marmion in the name of the children's home that I was brought up in Northern Ireland. And I can't say that it was a pleasant experience. And every now and again, the name pops up and it just evokes a different memory. So, I thought, a bit like, you know, you're always told, if you've got a bully, or there's someone bullying, you just look at them in sort of some ridiculous outfit, and they just look hilarious and ridiculous. So, for me changing the name, or giving the business name, something I'd be proud of something that I would love it change that narrative. So, I will, that was a really, that was important, that name meant something, and it would do something for me, but also, for other people. 
Then it wasn't until the following year in 2015, that I employed my first staff member Bridget, who was a friend of mine, a very dear friend of mine. And it was a risk for her because obviously, you know, I was a one-man band, but she knew that I had history. So, she came in to work with me. And then I eventually employed another guy. And then in January 2016, I formally launched Marmion Recruitment. And that's where it really began. So, we are now we were seven years old last Wednesday. 
Zach Greaves 03:44 
What an achievement, particularly given what we've gone through the last few years. 
Janet McGlaughlin 03:49 
My goodness, why did I do it? 
Zach Greaves 03:53 
Well, I tell you what, I've asked myself that question a few times over the last three years, Janet. 
Janet McGlaughlin 03:59 
I remember meeting you, a quiet man in a networking event. And we go, “god” and you have to go out of your comfort zone for some of them don’t you? And even though I seem a fairly confident, outgoing person, I struggle with networking events, because I don't like to push myself on people. 
Zach Greaves 04:22 
You really have to go out of your comfort zone sometimes, don’t you? 
Janet McGlaughlin 04:25 
Yeah. In fact, in my toilet, my sister bought me - she said what we'd like for Christmas, and we were out shopping one day and there was a poster, a picture it said, “your Comfort Zone will kill you”, so I said, well, you buy that for Christmas. And then we had it framed and it's in my toilet. So, whenever people come to the house, they go I love that. I said I know but it does. If you think about the number of people who stay in a comfort zone. And actually, they're more frightened in that comfort zone than they would if they just stepped outside of it and thought there's some so many possibilities if you do. 
Zach Greaves 04:56 
What's beyond this? Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting that you sort of ground yourself with that Janet, and I'm thinking, again, back to what you were saying about the garden shed, the famous garden shed of Marmion. And, also the company name, you know, a reminder of where you've come from, but actually changing that narrative. So, how has that influenced your business and indeed your career? 
Janet McGlaughlin 05:27 
Well, I suppose it goes back to in some ways, it goes back to my history back in the old Marmion, the Marmion I had no control over. They didn't do the right thing by children. But what I knew with Marmion was that to be successful in business, people need to trust you, there has to be a trust thing. 
I mean, okay, some people have got me these people who have these amazing ideas, and they make millions and millions, billions are the bit fantastic. You know, they work really hard. And a business like ours, which is a recruitment business, and the industry has a terrible, terrible reputation. You know, one of my biggest challenges was building that trust in the brand, building the trust in what we do. And integrity is a really key thing. But you know, I think that one of the things that people, I believe that the things that people like about us is that we'll always do our very best for people, we can't guarantee we'll find the right person. But if we do, I mean, our record speaks for itself, you know, in the last seven years, when I recently looked back on all the placements we've made, and in terms of the success as people who stayed for a year or more, and we know that because those clients are still using us. 
So, people do leave after a year or two, but at least that I can say comfortably, retention has always been a big thing for us. And if you do the right thing by both the candidate and the hiring business, they'll stay. And 96.1% of the people that we placed since January 2016, were there for a year. And in fact, more often than not, most people have gone on to have very successful careers in their business and being promoted as something I'm really, really proud of. Because the commitment we make to candidates is, look, we'll never force you to go down to take an offer, unless you feel it's right. And our job is to understand if it could be right for you. Which is why getting to understand the business, the people who are hiring, where they've been, where they are and what they want to be and what to do, that helps you to identify the people who apply to the jobs that we write for our clients, whether they can help them succeed in that goal of getting to that next step. Because if they can't, there's no point. So, but again, we can only rely on the information that we're given. And I'm pleased to say that most of our clients, whether the hiring business, or candidates are quite honest with us. 
Zach Greaves 07:53 
Yeah, it's about what you can find out about other businesses. And it's that depth of discovery, that’s kind of similar to our approach I suppose. But that's why you know, your business values and ethics can't be contrived can they? They have to come first. And the business can be built around it and rather than a bolt on at the end. 
Janet McGlaughlin 08:20 
Yeah. And I do believe that you either are that person or you're not. And one of the biggest one of the one of the very simple tests that were that I was ever tested was back when I was about 27. I'd only been in the industry for about a year. And I was asked if I'd be professional witness for a very large furniture manufacturing company in Leeds and I got this call from their head of HR saying, “excuse me, Miss Cousins (because my maiden name is Cousins), we hear that you are in this in the industry, we'd like you to tell us the average salaries for this particular role.” So I went back on all the history, all the information we had I said “well, the salaries would be X, Y, Z”, and the purpose of that was because what had happened was one of the key members of staff were being poached by a competitor and they knew that this person had been poached because they wanted the intel they wanted the company information. 
It was very clear that was the case because they were paying a huge whacking salary when it really wasn't worth that. So, I think it was a case law thing because it was in the High Court in London. And I remember going down there and sitting in the waiting area to be called to witness as a professional witness at 27. And I got up in front of this barrister and I heard her Northern Irish accent and thought, oh she'll be lovely to me, it will be fine. My god no she wasn’t, she was awful. 
Zach Greaves 09:47 
Oh, my goodness. What an experienced. 
Janet McGlaughlin 09:51 
One thing I learned out of all that, was all I did was stick to what I know and what I knew to be true based on facts and information that I had. And she asked me the same question time and time again and hoped that I answered differently. But I couldn't because I didn't know any other way. And the judge even said to her, whatever her name was, you've asked Miss Cousins this question about five different ways, and you don't seem to get any different. So, I think we can establish that's the answer, but the takeaway from that was stick to what is truthful. Because no matter which way it comes out to or what you know, don't try and wing it too much. Sometimes we have to wing it. But when it comes to something serious and important, be truthful, and then you will never, you'll never be caught out. Because you've got nothing to be caught out with. So that's how I've lived my business life is always being truthful with the information that I've got. 
Zach Greaves 10:45 
Being true to yourself, and true to your identity. And that said, that's in the name of Marmion itself. 
Janet McGlaughlin 10:54 
My team, not just me, it's my team, because they follow that through. 
Zach Greaves 10:58 
Well, sure, sure. But just where you came from, I guess and that story that you've shared with us, Janet. Credit to you for that for, for creating the start of it. So, talk to me then, Janet, about the recruitment process and how you do things differently at Marmion. 
Janet McGlaughlin 11:29 
Thank you. Thank you. I know there are people in our industry who are as committed to doing what's right for both their hiring businesses and the candidate. So, I know we're not unique. 
But there does appear from what we hear, there's not enough of it. And that was one of the things I was committed to when I sat in my shed, thinking about the people I'd bring into the business. And I said that I would bring in, I really only wanted to bring in people that I could train, because I knew they wouldn't have any bad habits. And they would and their motivation, I could establish that in the interview process and ensure that I and I nourished that, and I nurtured it so that they could go home at night and say I've done a great job. And that's really important. We all want that. Because it's not always about money. Working life is not always about money. It's about going home and thinking, you know, done a good day's job, you know. 
Zach Greaves 12:18 
Satisfaction at the end of the day. Yeah. 
Janet McGlaughlin 12:21 
Because if you look at the reasons why people go to work, money's actually not at the top of the list, it's obviously important because we'd be naive not to think that. But when I thought I could help train and develop colleagues who would be really proud of what they did. So, investing in them is really important. 
And as of January, or late December, 23rd of December, actually, just before Christmas, every single person in Marmion is qualified with an industry qualification now, and most are graduates, but they've also got on top of that. Not just the training they get from Marmion, but they also have a formal recruitment industry qualification to diploma level, which is really important. And they can take that with them. I mean, if they if they decide to go at least they've got something out of it. But it gives them the confidence. And actually, I believe that anybody working with them knows that they've invested themselves in a service that they know they need to comply legally, but also professionally. 
Zach Greaves 13:27 
Yeah, they're not winging it. 
Janet McGlaughlin 13:31 
No, they’re not winging it. And if you sat in our office and listened to how we debate about well, do you think they're actually telling the truth? And they share with each other. And it's really lovely to watch, you know, they say, I'm not really sure because my spidey senses are telling me so, well, if your spidey senses telling you, don't do it. You know, and so we will often end an application because something's come up that we think it'll fail eventually. But it's not just a fail for the client, the hiring business, but also fail for the candidate. So, what's the point of putting them through the pain of that, and that takes a lot of 
Zach Greaves 14:09 
takes a lot of guts, doesn't it? To stick to your instincts to that degree. Because we as humans, we like to trust people, don’t we? 
Janet McGlaughlin 14:17 
Yeah. But also, from a commercial point of view. It'd be so easy to take the money and say, well it’s within the guarantee period, so I'm not interested, bugger off. It's not how we work. 
Zach Greaves 14:29 
Wow. But yeah, it's all about the person first, isn't it any aspect of recruitment? And you know, the team that you have, it's clear that you've taken people on who you believe can be moulded into Marmion, rather than the other way around. 
Janet McGlaughlin 14:48 
What people don't appreciate is that especially candidates who are applying for jobs is that everything we do up to the point that the person starts is a we pay for all that. So you know, candidates who ghost us, who apply to jobs that we've created, we've created the adverts we've paid for the adverts. We've registered the adverts, we've administered all this stuff, we've got to know the clients, we've got to know, you know, the amount of work that goes into it is not inconsiderable. But because it's a free service to a candidate, one of the things I get a bit disappointed with is sometimes candidates don't realise that you know, sometimes, it's okay to ring and say, you know, I'm not really interested anymore, instead of just ghosting, because it doesn't look good. It doesn't look good on them. But they've got a free service, that they're basically getting a free service to find other career opportunities. 
You know, and it's the client who does pay, but the candidates, it's all free to them, but at the same time, we know that without the candidates, we don't have a business. But we're not getting those candidates for free. We're paying for that, for the games that attract them. So, it's an understanding but I also have a lot of sympathy with candidates who are really treated badly by agencies because some agencies think, well, you're not paying for our service, it doesn't really matter if I treat with respect or not. 
My consultants are trained to respect everybody that they work with, whether it's a hiring business, whether it's candidate, whether it's a supplier, whatever, you treat people with respect and bit of consideration. 
Zach Greaves 16:33 
Yeah, it's a fundamental, isn't it? And that’s something that we both really share in our ethics in business, Janet. And I suppose that leads nicely into when we had a quick chat before we started recording today, is that responsibility. So, when we talk about each CV that you receive on your desk at Marmion. There's a story there, and there's a story yet to be written. So how do you handle that level of responsibility when it comes to each individual application you receive or CV that you get? 
Janet McGlaughlin 17:11 
Do you care and consideration? Diligence, you know, every CV, believe it or not, every CV that we get is read. You may not respond to every CV, because if you do you just wouldn't have time to do well. And providing that CV matches up with the criteria as per the job. Because the job description I've got to write is quite comprehensive. So, you know, we expect people to also have read the CV or read the job advert because then they'd know whether it was right or not. So, we have to assume that they've done that. 
So, reading the CV properly reading between the lines and not assuming that just because the CV doesn't read 100% perfect that it's not right, because you'd be amazed at the number of times that we've got a CV and we think, not sure. But what we do in the background is we will then do a search on their LinkedIn, we'll look at the companies that they've worked for, because everybody here is trained to understand how an organisation operates and what the departments do. If they go on to do a company search, they can say, well, this company does this. And this person's role is this and we assume that the task that they will have completed will be X, Y and Z. So, it's a really intelligent way of going around assessing somebody's CV who may not be brilliant at writing a CV. 
Zach Greaves 18:34 
Well, that's it, isn't it? Well, we're not all gifted with that. 
Janet McGlaughlin 18:38 
We're not all gifted at telling our story. And the CV is a story. It's a biography. Because you cover biographical history. So, when you're doing an interview, it's broken into areas. So, you've got a competency interview, which is about just understanding behaviours and stuff. 
But the biography of someone is where they started, where they are now and where they want to get to. That's the really exciting bit you go, “ooh, that's lovely”. There’s so many, honestly, I very rarely have forgotten anyone in the 30 years I've been in the industry, if they contacted me 30 years later, and they said, and I've met them, and that's why we meet everybody and I insist to anybody that's been put forward to a client, we meet them, then you never forget them because you remember their story. 
Zach Greaves 19:30 
It's what binds us together as humans, isn't it? And it's a hook for every everybody on the planet, whether you're a business owner, telling your story and communicating those value propositions. 
Janet McGlaughlin 19:46 
Some people go, “oh, my stories, really, my background is really boring”. But actually, nobody's life is boring. I don't believe that. I think everybody has a story to tell. It's interesting to see why people make the decisions that they do. And part of our assessment is to understand why people have made the decisions they've made in their career history. 
Is it for personal reasons? Is it for other reasons? It's a real privilege to be fair, you know, when someone's open with you, and yeah, but that requires time. And you need to give people time. And one of the things, my criticism that I would have for too many recruiters is, they're not given the time. They're just told “churn, churn, churn”, but that’s not the job of a consultant, it's ‘listen, listen, listen’. Because information is really important. And their story is information. 
Zach Greaves 20:49 
And listen, from a different perspective, as well, like you said, the CV doesn't tell the full story. 
Janet McGlaughlin 20:56 
And you know, the other thing is that part of the process of getting to understand our applicants and our hiring businesses, there's a degree of counselling that we offer as well, because you could have somebody who comes in and they're a little bit broken, because they've had a bad experience. And when they come to you, they're in that state, when they're a bit broken, and you can help to provide them with the confidence and the support, so that they fix themselves a little bit. 
Oh, my gosh, that's really powerful. And that is the most enjoyable part of this job is knowing that, because of your involvement, they have moved from one stage to another. And that is part of the joy of being in the industry that we're in. 
Zach Greaves 21:42 
And the knock-on effect of that family future. All the rest of it, financial. 
Janet McGlaughlin 21:49 
Yeah. And I don't even think about, you know, course, I know, I know that if I do the right job, I get paid. It's that, but sometimes, you're just doing it and you're not actually placing the candidates, but you know, when they come back to you, when they're in the position to make a decision about who they want to work with as a client, or as a candidate in the future. It's that experience, that first experience that they've had with us that makes them come back to us. 
Zach Greaves 22:15 
Yeah, it's the same feeling for you, isn’t it? 
Janet McGlaughlin 22:19 
Yeah, you just, it just gives you that feeling that- 
Zach Greaves 22:25 
I'm doing the right thing. 
Janet McGlaughlin 22:28 
Yeah. And that's what ethical business management is about. Do what's right, because you may not get rewarded there in that moment - well, not in the way that we're typically get rewarded. But you get rewarded different ways, you get so many different types of rewards. Don't get me wrong, I'm not a saint, by the way, but when you feel like that, it stays with you. 
Zach Greaves 22:52 
And you carry it forward. 
So, tell me then, Janet, because I know that obviously for so many businesses, COVID was a challenge. And no less for yourselves really, so tell me about that period, and how you how you got through that and held on to that sense of hope. 
Janet McGlaughlin 23:16 
So, sadly, our family were involved in the very early stages, I started to get the symptoms on the 16th of March. And the rest of the family, apart from my daughter, ended up in hospital. I nearly lost my husband, but from a business point of view, you know, I remember on that Tuesday, I think it was the 17th, I remember opening up a message from somebody who is in the industry, but as somebody who my son’s friends with and he said oh, well, Marmion will be well and truly, that word begins with f. And you know, I remember reading that going, oh well, I’ll bloody prove to you. 
Zach Greaves 23:56 
I'll show you. Yeah. 
Janet McGlaughlin 23:58 
But you know, our pipeline just dropped off a cliff. It literally dropped off a cliff, we just post the election in December, everything started going up countries started feeling confident again, and it just literally dropped off a ledge. 
So, we weren't financially, we hadn't built up huge reserves of cash and stuff like that. But somehow, I actually retrained to be a fit tester. So, I was going around dental practices, fitting masks just to put money into the business, selling equipment, just put money into the business so that I could pay wages. And thankfully, we had the furlough scheme, but it was a scary time because I thought, I’d spent all this time and money in the business. And I could have just so easily given up but thankfully my husband came out of hospital. 
We all recovered in the summer of 2019 or 20 rather, clients started coming back to us and saying look, you know, we want to carry on working with you. Are you still opening? And so we said “absolutely”. So, then businesses kept coming in and we recruited another guy. And that was really brave of him because we were just a small business, Luke and Mark were still there, Angus, myself, there was only a small number of us. And in 2021 to 2022, we had our best year, we actually went into profit, which was amazing. 
And the team has grown quite a bit and the learn from it was you just, I think you said it. In fact, I know you said it, because it was it was a very important thing that you said in that podcast. You just turn off every day, turn up every day, even when you don't feel like it just turn up. And you just never know what might happen. And that's exactly what we did. We turned up every day. Keep on going, albeit remotely, but we turned up. So, it was a scary time. But it was a time of a great courage for everybody in the business in the world of business. Courage was really important. And belief. 
Zach Greaves 26:00 
Yeah. Well, we'll go on to that and the future of Marmion in a moment. But I think it's interesting isn't it? If you do the right thing, as you said, people remembered you. But also, if you're showing up every day and planting those seeds, with no sense of them growing or flourishing, or even sprouting. But keep coming back and watering that soil. Things will flourish eventually. 
Janet McGlaughlin 26:32 
Because the temptation I don't care why the basic the temptation, I'm sure for a lot of independent business owners at that time was oh, why bother? 
Zach Greaves 26:43 
Why am I doing this? 
Janet McGlaughlin 26:44 
Yes, you do. But we didn't. And that's why we celebrate our seventh birthday on the fourth of January. 
Zach Greaves 26:53 
Incredible, what a story. What a turnaround. So, seven years of Marmion. What is the current state? What are you excited about this year Janet? What can we expect in the near future and the long-term future of the business? 
Janet McGlaughlin 27:17 
I’m talking to you in our office, I'm just looking into the main office and the lovely people that work with me, they're our future. That's the future of Marmion. And I'm so grateful that they turn up every day. And we start the year, we started January with our highest ever pipeline. cash in the bank that is. Northern powerhouse believed in us. And so, we've had some investment, and that investment will go towards developing our brand in the marketplace, recruiting some people, some more people, a potential office move in the summer to somewhere bigger because where we are, they don't have the facility to give us bigger space. 
I'm just continuing doing what we're doing with more businesses. I don't you know; I'm not bothered about having volume businesses working with us. I'm interested in having businesses that you know, need us. And what we do is we generally start within one department and then they go “oh, do you know they're really good”. And they pass us on to somebody else and then they go “oh, because they're not just limited to that they also so we do from graduate or entry level all the way up to C suite.” Because when you start recruiting for business, and you understand their culture, and what's happening and where they want to go, when you meet somebody, you instinctively know actually this, this is a good shout, this is a person. 
So, with a team now fully qualified, which I don't know of any other agency in Leeds where everybody is qualified. And because we work nationally, we've just been invited down to Swindon to meet with another customer, potential customer. So, we're recruiting all over the UK, and we just want to keep growing. We just want to keep our head down and keep going. You know, we don't need to do any more than that. Just keep doing what we're doing. Keep doing it right. Keep making sure that everybody is looked after healthy and satisfied with what they do. And I don't see why we shouldn't continue to grow. 
Zach Greaves 29:22 
No for sure, but two office moves in two years. That's quite something Janet. 
Janet McGlaughlin 29:27 
Yeah. Well, you know, we moved into this office was it 
Zach Greaves 29:32 
last year, wasn't it? Was it? 
Janet McGlaughlin 29:34 
Yeah, it was last year. A year ago. Well, we need more space because we're going to bring on at least four or five new people this year. And then next year, on that basis, we'll be ready to possibly double the numbers. 
Because my plan is that we will continue to grow Marmion in Yorkshire. Because of technology, we don't need to have offices up and down the country. We can go and visit these, you know, we'll still go and see our clients up and down the country. Because we've got quite a few that, most of our clients are not in Leeds, believe it or not. But we still will travel to them, so we get to meet them and they get to know us. But my plan is, this will be a Yorkshire based organisation, grow the headcount here to 100. So, we provide employment in Leeds. And then people who are in, who we trained and developed, if they said, “here's something Janet, I really fancy opening the office in New Zealand”, because they've been trained by us, because they know if at all, they can carry that somewhere else. And I want to create that opportunity for these amazing people that work here. 
Zach Greaves 30:45 
Fundamentally, the business is about people, isn't it? And that's transferable, wherever you are in the world. 
Janet McGlaughlin 30:52 
Absolutely. People like honesty, they like people they can trust, they like to work with people they can trust. Because, you know, they have to pay. You know, what we do is, as I said to you earlier, it costs money to do what we do. And sometimes businesses don't appreciate that, for every step, the minimum 26 steps it takes for us to find somebody, it costs money. And so, we do charge a fee for it. But I'd like to think that those clients who do use us, they see that actually, that's money well worth spending, and we're a small business to at the moment, if we need to be flexible with them, we will be. But I think that they feel they would say yeah, it's good value for money for what we do, because they trust us. 
Zach Greaves 31:42 
Fabulous. And I know Janet, we've also talked a little bit about diversity, and the networking events that you're hoping to host later this year. Can you tell us anything about that? Or have I sort of unveiled the secret? 
Janet McGlaughlin 31:59 
No, I mean, I am very committed to opportunities for all. And I mean, because when I started my life, when I left the children's home, there was a lot of bias against people who come from my background. But thankfully, you know, I didn't have a lot of the challenges that the people who I want to be able to support this year and develop networking events for them, people who are neurodivergent, I think there is a huge piece of work to be done to a help to identify them, you know, and create ways that people who are neurodivergent feel confident to be able to make approaches for career opportunities. 
I think we need to do more work in terms of how we interview and assess them, because one size does not fit all. Then the onboarding and then the thereafter management. But one of the things that I believe, people who are neurodivergent struggle with the most is our networking events. And if I can even start to create networking events that enable people who are neurodivergent to go to and be comfortable in. That's a way to build a confidence. But also, it removes a lot of the bias because why should they be excluded from events like this purely because it's too far out of their comfort zone? 
And I'm very excited because I spoke to somebody who is a CEO of a very significant business in the UK and I sent her a message that said, I know it's you're interested in this, would you be interested in supporting it? And so, she's invited me for a coffee with her Head of People in the very near future. 
So, we can start putting this together and if we can start it in Leeds, and maybe other people adopt it - and it's not a way making money by the way. This is not a money-making venture. This is purely to be able to give people who are neurodivergent opportunities in the same way that those who are not neurodivergent have that they're very much more comfortable in. 
Zach Greaves 34:17 
So yeah, what an opportunity and how inspiring Janet. I'm dying to know who it is, by the way, that you’re collaborating with. Maybe we'll find out in the next few months. 
Janet McGlaughlin 34:30 
You will eventually, you will eventually. But I know that she's fabulous actually. And it’s interesting why I knew she was right was because when I went for meeting with them, one of the questions they asked in that meeting was, what are your views on diversity in the workplace? Well, that was like music to my ears. I just went, Oh my God. I've never been asked that question. But they asked it for the right reasons. So, we immediately went off on one. 
Zach Greaves 35:02 
You were speaking to someone in your own language. Yeah. 
Janet McGlaughlin 35:05 
Yes, so important. Especially where we have skill shortages. But we haven't got shortage of people, we've just got shortage in terms of imagination of how we can source people. 
Zach Greaves 35:18 
It’s so exciting. And, as I say, all credit to you. 
Janet McGlaughlin 35:26 
Well, you’ll be writing pieces on that for me by the way, Zach. So, you’ll be the first people who follow me on that journey, because you'll be writing the bits and you'll be articulating them and the stories that you will tell about it. 
Zach Greaves 35:35 
Well, so excited to be part of that journey. 
Janet McGlaughlin 35:39 
I'd like you to be actually. I think that, you know, the more exposure we have, or the more we write about it, the more it becomes part of our culture, part of our society, our business world. And we need to write it in a in a way that's not patronising or we don't monetize it. It's about doing what's right. 
Zach Greaves 36:02 
Totally. Well, Janet, I mean, as we usually round things off, what would you say your three tips are to businesses, or indeed individuals looking to tell their story? So, be that in a CV, be that on a blog, website, copy, branding? How have you delivered Marmion’s stories successfully? And how would you say an individual could best represent their own story? 
Janet McGlaughlin 36:33 
The important thing for me is always be truthful. People don't expect people would be very concerned, if you try to say everything is perfect, it's not. 
But if you're truthful, and that's part of who you are, or part of your business is truthful, then anything you say, has a more significant level of authenticity. And people trust that. People trust it more if you're authentic, and they're more likely to come back to you. Because they trust that what you've said is, you know, what you see is what you get. Because if you waver from those, and you try and bluff it, you know, people trip you up, they know it. 
Zach Greaves 37:19 
If you're not truthful and authentic, you end up tripping yourself up. It's not always about somebody else tripping you up, 
Janet McGlaughlin 37:26 
Yeah, you may have invested, you may have had years and years of good experience with somebody, but the minute they see that, actually what they're saying is, is no longer consistent. You lose that trust. And that's something that I teach the guys, you will make mistakes. And you know, you don't learn if you don't make mistakes. But as long as you deal with them, it'll get better, people will trust that and that's how trust is built. 
Zach Greaves 37:54 
Acknowledge and learn from them, but above all being authentic and truthful. The three pillars there Janet, three beautifully articulated pillars. So, thank you for sharing that with us. And it's been a real pleasure today. So, thanks so much for jumping on and telling your story and what we've got to look forward to for Marmion in 2023. 
Janet McGlaughlin 38:19 
I look forward to continuing to work with you Zach, you know, the work that you do for us it's brilliant, and you're a great storyteller. And that's important. So, thank you as well to you. And I wish you all the very best for 2023 as well. 
Zach Greaves 38:32 
Well. That's so kind. Thanks so much. Janet, before we go, would you like to share with our listeners, your various social handles or perhaps your website and how to find the Ethical Business Podcast too? 
Janet McGlaughlin 38:47 
So, you'll find us on LinkedIn, Marmion Recruitment. Or you'll find us on 
Zach Greaves 39:04 
Wonderful. And it's the Ethical Business Podcast on Spotify. 
Janet McGlaughlin 39:10 
Yes, actually when I come off here, we're about to have our first recording for the year. So, James is downstairs in the waiting room. 
Zach Greaves 39:18 
Really excited to hear. James set us on our podcasting journey too. 
Janet McGlaughlin 39:23 
He did he's very good. 
Zach Greaves 39:25 
Thank you. Okay, well, thanks so much, Janet. Invest in your own story with Words that Work which is free to listen to twice a month on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and whatever podcast apps on your device. Head over to our website to learn more about our show. 
Thanks for listening. We hope to see you soon. 
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