In this episode, Zach introduces Artus’ first Trainee Copywriter and Digital Marketing Executive, Ellie Robinson. As Ellie approaches the end of her 12-month internship, this episode takes a look back at the past year and the main takeaways from her placement. From gaining confidence to finding her place in the world of copywriting, Zach and Ellie explore everything from perfecting your CV to the ever-changing landscape of copywriting and digital storytelling. 
Zachary Greaves 00:03 
Welcome to Words that Work. My name is Zach Greaves, founder and director of Artus Digital Marketing. We're here to empower businesses to tell their own story through compelling copywriting and content. 
Today, I'm delighted to be joined with Ellie Robinson. She's a trainee intern copywriter for us here at Artus, and an English literature student at Loughborough University too. So, really good to have you on the podcast, Ellie, finally after all of these hours of editing that you’ve been doing for us! 
Ellie Robinson 00:37 
It's weird to be on the other end to be honest! I'm normally normally behind the screen and doing the magic. 
Zachary Greaves 00:44 
I bet it is! I know how an involved a process that is too so, thank you for your hard work. 
Ellie Robinson 00:52 
That's okay! It's quite fun, actually. I quite enjoy it. 
Zachary Greaves 00:55 
Good. Yeah, a bit bit of a change from the day to day copywriting side of things, Ellie? 
Ellie Robinson 01:00 
Yeah, definitely get a bit more digital and everything. So yeah, it's good! 
Zachary Greaves 01:04 
Yeah, definitely. Good. Well, thanks again, for coming on. And I suppose that the timing of this is quite good, really, because you come into the end of your placement with us, which is incredible. I remember you coming into the office a year ago, and that time has just flown by. But yeah, what a year, it's been, and thanks for your efforts, and for all you've achieved in that time. 
So, tell me Ellie, I mean, we'll get a bit further into your placement in a little while. But, perhaps we could start by you telling me why you were interested in the industry. And obviously, you're an English student, so it lends itself very well to copywriting. But what attracted you to this industry? 
Ellie Robinson 02:02 
I think mainly the main thing was probably the writing aspects of my degree. You know, even since primary school, I think writing was always that one thing that I kind of excelled at. You know, I had to have three years of maths tutoring to pass my GCSE. I've always been a better writer, I guess, than a speaker in different aspects as well. 
So yeah, I think and then finding the placement - when I initially went into the process of finding a placement, I didn't have a clue what I wanted to do. I feel like everyone's always like, ‘Oh, do you want to be a teacher?’ or ‘Do you want to do this?’, and it never sort of attracted me. But you know, started doing a bit of research and talking to friends and trying to see what they were going to do. And, and yeah, everyone, sort of, not everyone, but quite a lot of people were going down the marketing route of English. And so you know, did a little bit more digging into that and found copywriting and digital marketing and that side of things. And, yeah, that really interested me. 
I mean, at A-Level I did media studies as well. So, it all sort of seemed to tie in and I kind of thought to myself, yeah, I could be alright at that. So, yeah, that's kind of where the attraction came from. 
Zachary Greaves 03:23 
A natural fit then really? 
Ellie Robinson 
Yeah, I would say so. 
Zachary Greaves 
I could just so relate to everything you've just described. Not kind of knowing what career you want to do after you have an English degree. And for me, I kind of thought, ‘Well, what career has got right in it other than journalism?’. 
And the time when I was at school and doing work experience it, I went to a couple of local newspapers. But during that time, there were redundancies left, right and centre. That quickly put me off journalism, but it is, yeah, what else do I do? Finally, I found the world of copywriting. 
But, yeah. Well, I'm glad you found it. I'm glad you found us. I’m glad we found each other. And, yeah, it's just really good working with you. And as I say, it's been a joy to kind of witness your progression during that time. 
So, tell me then, your expectations about the world of copywriting and that as a role versus the reality of it. Tell me about that. 
Ellie Robinson 04:40 
Oh, gosh, that's a good question. I guess my expectations, in a way I almost didn't know what to expect. But I think the main thing for me that sort of, not shocked me, but it made a nice change when I joined the team was just the wide variety of clients that you do work with. Like, I feel like in one way that's, that's given me such good experience that I almost feel like if I'd have gone like just with one company that focused on just their own copywriting, I feel like you wouldn't get that experience anywhere else. 
And I guess just, as I said, like going into it, you don't know what to expect, because I've never done it before. You know, I write for my degree. But, you know, for other people, I've never done that before. I mean, I remember the first piece of work that I sent to you was about storage in warehouses, wasn't it? And you kind of sent it back. And I was still so yeah, I was so firmly in the mindset of essay writing, and then long sentences and long paragraphs and writing as if people already know what you're talking about. 
But coming into copywriting, it's a completely different mindset. I think that is also something that was a big learning curve, that just the style of writing and you know, when you sent it back the first time you were like, ‘COuld you just like make these few edits?’, and I was like, oh, gosh, I don't know, I don't know how to write in short sentences. And I don't know how to simplify things. But in a way, it's it's made me such a better writer as well. But yeah, I think that was, that would be the main thing, like the expectation of the writing is just so different. But it's in a good way. 
Zachary Greaves 06:24 
Academic writing is different in many ways. But yeah, it's a natural fit an English degree to go into copywriting. As I say, natural progression, I suppose. And yeah, I think for me, I've had a conversation just this morning, actually, I suppose I have a conversation just about every week about the variety of clients that we work with, and what a pleasure that is, and how nice it is to have that variety in your working day. And working week, you know, go from hospitality, to concrete, to accountancy, to legal all in the same week, that's sometimes in the same day, actually. 
Ellie Robinson 07:15 
It's so nice to just sort of wake up and have something new to think about, you know, you're always constantly thinking of new ideas, and how am I going to fit this tone of voice? And how am I going to portray this client across in the writing, then that's part of the magic of it, really? And why I enjoy it so much is so different? Yeah. I mean, my attention span sometimes isn't great. So to be able to switch and jump, it's quite nice. 
Zachary Greaves 07:41 
So what's your biggest learning been, during your time with us so far, Ellie? Has it been that adaptation? I guess that will have been a big thing, change in tone of voice and that kind of research? Or what else is it? 
Ellie Robinson 08:02 
Yeah, definitely. I mean, definitely the tone of voice, making sure that you're portraying a client as they want to be. And I think as well like writing for other people, you know, for the first time ever, I was writing for an audience, rather than just like a lecture, who's going to mark the piece and just send it back? Like, you're almost writing for conversation and feedback. 
I remember, obviously, my mentor was Rachel for time on my placement and, you know, just even down to like, how you use your punctuation and how that goes into the writing. 
And time management as well, I'd say is a big thing. And I think when working from home, I mean, the structure of a nine to five is obviously completely different to being a student. You have a dedicated time during the day to work, and I feel like at the beginning. That was something that I was kind of like, not taken aback by, but it’s definitely given me more structure. And that’s then something that I'll take on into the future as well. Whether that be my final year or, you know, future work as well. Yeah, discipline is definitely a big learning. 
Zachary Greaves 09:29 
Yeah. Do you think you'll do any all nighters when you go back to uni then, Ellie? 
Ellie Robinson 09:35 
You know, I've never done an all nighter. I've never done it. I don't know how! But I have a friend at uni who leaves everything to the last minute. I remember last year, we were sat in the Students Union and I went home at 9pm and she was still there at like, 1am. I just don't know how people do it. 
I mean, I am quite an organised person. It's been drilled into me since quite a young age that as soon as I get it, I have to do it or else I might go insane. But yeah, definitely no all nighters for me next year! 
Zachary Greaves 10:09 
I did it once at uni, and I wouldn't recommend it. It's not fun. 
Well go back to university, funnily enough. Well, how's your degree been so far? Obviously, you're part of a sandwich cours and this year has been part of your degree. So, how has uni been so far? And how has it prepared you for this year would you say and obviously for your future career? 
Ellie Robinson 10:43 
Yeah, I mean, uni so far. So my first year was during COVID 2020. So, that was a bit, you know, all over the place. I was actually at home for most of my first year, just because, you know, halls and shared bathrooms and shared kitchens during COVID. I mean, collectively as a hall, we caught COVID right the first month. So, that kind of knocked me back a little bit. My mental health took about the toll during that year, I think. So I went home just for the best and went back in Easter of first year. And ever since then, I've absolutely loved it. 
I remember when we first caught COVID, I rang my parents up and they were in the Lake District, I was like, ‘You need to come pick me up’, tears streaming down my face. They said like ‘Ellie, we can't pick you up’, they were six hours away. I was like, ‘Please, you don't understand!’. But I'm very, very glad that they didn't. 
So second year, I feel picked up a little bit, but I was also working part time in hospitality. So, then I kind of feel like my first two years were sort of challenges. 
Zachary Greaves 
Different challenges, non-academic. 
Ellie Robinson 
Yeah! I was working night shifts to like 3am, and then having lectures the next day, and then back at work again. Yeah, I'm excited to go into my final year, and focus on my degree fully. I feel like almost last year, I almost fell out of love with my degree, which I never wanted to happen. And to be able to take this time during my placement and dedicate it to writing in and focusing and, you know, having such a supportive team around me to kind of push me along the way, I've benefited so much from that. And I'm excited to go back and just focus and work and still do a little bit of freelance writing on the side and just focus on my craft and just really try and excel in it. Yeah, I'm really looking forward to that side of it! 
Zachary Greaves 12:58 
I love that Ellie! Thank you. 
And so let's sort of rewind to a year ago, then to think about who you were and how you were back then. In terms of your knowledge of the industry, your writing style, all the rest of it. You mentioned time management, as well. Just picked up on that. 
How do you think you've developed during that time? What what are the key areas in which you've developed? 
Oh, gosh, so many. I feel like the person that I actually was a year ago is almost, in a sense, completely not the same person. Yeah, kind of, I speak about it quite a lot, but just my confidence, has come on, in leaps and bounds. You know, from sending you every single blog plan that I did, and then getting approval, and then I'm like, ‘Right, okay, I'm good to go with that plan’, and then writing the plan. And, you know, all that back and forth. 
Like, now I feel confident enough in my own ability to, you know, write a blog, and, you know, read through it myself and edit it and send it back and take that feedback on and not feel like I've done a bad job. To take on that feedback and think, ‘Well, it's still a good piece of work, but it's just stuff that I haven't picked up on’. 
I think that's also a good part of why we do the peer reviews is you know, you can read other people's work and take on things that you think ‘Oh, that's, that's quite good. I'd quite like to use that’. And then you can implement it into your own work. 
But yeah, confidence. My writing style is completely different to when I first started, I feel like I've been able to, in a really good way, simplify what I'm trying to say. I feel like before, I’d use so many words, but say so little. Just because I was always trying to you know, get to the word count and try and you know, make it sound as professional as possible. I feel like I've just refined it quite a lot. And it's, you know, it's something that I'm proud of now. I was proud of it before, but you know, now I kind of sit back and I think ‘You know what, I've, I've done a good job! 
Zachary Greaves 
Hone your craft? 
Ellie Robinson 
Yeah, exactly. But yeah, definitely confidence, writing style. I’m trying to think if there's anything else, I don't know if you you've picked up on anything specific? 
Zachary Greaves 15:30 
You know, I particularly noticed the growth of your confidence, Ellie, definitely. Within the first few weeks, I think after that initial, maybe six weeks. And we, you know, kind of threw you in at the deep end a little bit, because we went to a couple of networking groups together, didn't we? And we were in on some client calls and, and, yeah, just your demeanour. I just noticed you becoming much more confident very quickly. And that was amazing to see. 
And for me, yeah, certainly, just your, your confidence dealing with new topics too. So, you know, there’s the the external confidence, and then there's the internal confidence to tackle really unfamiliar and sometimes quite complicated subject matter. And to kind of do that independently too. So, independence of work, your confidence, certainly. Obviously, you know, the quality and speed of your writing is come on leaps and bounds, too. And then, yeah, back to the time management too. So, so many areas. So, yeah, it's been, as I say, it's been great to witness it. And, and great to see that happen in you, Ellie. 
Ellie Robinson 16:56 
Thank you for taking me on! 
Zachary Greaves 16:59 
Yeah, thanks for getting on board and embracing our company values and being a really valued member of the team. 
So, I think personally, that even during this last year, the landscape of copywriting, and storytelling for business and technology have moved on in so many ways. I mean, I can't go to a business meeting without speaking about AI and Chat GPT. It's every other conversation I have, because we're in the world of copywriting, it’s ‘Oh, you're gonna be out of a job soon’ or, ‘Oh, how is Chat GPT effecting you?’. 
And then I'm actually doing a talk this evening. We were speaking on June the 12th 2023 here, and I'm speaking at Harrogate chamber tonight, and I'll be speaking a bit about Chat GPT and the advances of technology. 
But how do you first of all, how do you feel about it? And what have you noticed during this last year, Ellie, in the world of copywriting? 
I feel, like you said, you can't really go anywhere and not be brought up these days. We went to an event, I feel like all we spoke about sometimes was AI and whether, you know, Chat GPT is gonna take over. But I feel like when you are working within the industry, it's sort of a no brainer that it can't fully take over. 
You know, you can sort of use it to your advantage and you know, utilise it in ways, but that human touch of writing is always going to be so important. I remember I did the Google Digital Garage course and kind of thinking back to that, but that human way of writing is always going to, you know, help SEO more than a robotic tone of voice. 
And I feel like in a way yeah, like you said, you can you can use it to, you know, help generate ideas and kind of push push the thoughts on but I feel like even if you did that, you'd have to expand on it personally. I mean, we talk about it quite a lot, but the statistics and the information that it has isn't always up to date, either. So, if you wanted to use it for your copywriting online, you're always going to have to go back to it and edit it and kind of put your own input on it to help it go forward, if that makes sense? 
Zachary Greaves 19:34 
Add that sense of humanity to it. Yeah. The nuance within language that robots can't pick up on. 
Ellie Robinson 19:42 
Yeah, definitely. 
Zachary Greaves 19:44 
I mean, the speed at which everything's developing is quite alarming. You know, I do wonder whether countries will put boundaries around it. I think at the moment we need to personally place our own boundaries around it. And, yeah, obviously we do that as a business. But it's yeah, it's all about evolving with the technology rather than the other way around. And yeah, I think we obviously we've got a good product and we've got talented people. And robots won’t replace us anytime soon, I don't think/ 
Ellie Robinson 20:25 
I mean, it's like at uni, I mean, keep going back to it. But, you know, when you write an essay, it's going to be quite easy to tell if something has been put through an AI system, you know. And they've actually started to pick up on it now, like the systems that the uni uses to sort of send the essay through like, it comes with a plagiarism checker, I guess you could call it. But it's coming up with whether things have been put through Chat GPT now, people are picking up on it. And I feel like, people are trying to in different areas, control how it's used. You know, still encouraging people to not rely on them, but, you know, use your own words, use your own writing, and just keep putting that personal touch on it. Like we said, I feel like it's so much more beneficial than than using it completely to create a piece of work. 
Zachary Greaves 21:24 
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Thanks, Ellie, for your thoughts on that. It's, it's an interesting topic. 
Ellie Robinson 
It is! I feel like you could talk for hours about it! 
Zachary Greaves 
You could speak about it every two weeks and have a completely different conversation, given the speed at which it's evolving. But yeah, I think for me, the key thing is really cultivating your own story. Will will beat any robot. Well, it could create a story for you, but it wouldn't be your story. So owning your own story, celebrating it and living it, I think that's really important. 
And I feel like as well, just like as copywriters. You should, should enjoy writing, you know, you should take it in your stride. I feel like yeah, just making the most of that time that you have to write, whether that's professionally or for personal reasons, just using it to enjoy it rather than more of like a chore. 
So, I feel like people that enjoy writing and have a an actual passion for it will continue to do that. So, yeah, I think copywriters, I don't think they should have anything in particular, at this moment in time, to panic too much about. 
Zachary Greaves 22:43 
Yeah, let’s hope so. So, you must have developed some kind of ideas and strategies for storytelling. Since your time working with us, Ellie, over the last year. What would you say your top tips for utilising the power of storytelling in business? 
Um, I guess, my sort of strategy, whether it's a blog or social media or anything, I always plan it first. You know, again, going back to that sort of essay base, but I guess that's what I've always known is, you know, plan what you write before you go into it. You know, I always feel like for me, if I've got my thoughts out, it will always be more cohesive on paper than if I just went in and like started rambling and typing on my keyboard without any thoughts. 
So, yeah, definitely planning and research as well. I mean, again, working with such a wide variety of clients and businesses and sectors, you sometimes you can go get a brief and you're like, ‘What does that mean?’. Yeah, never even heard of it. And yeah, you know, whether it's googling it or you know, looking at their business profiles on social media, just making sure that you get a good grasp of their business and who they are and cracking down that tone of voice just to make sure that you know, that story that you are telling for that company it sounds as if it was coming from them. You know, that's that's what you want at the end of the day, isn't it, for whatever you're writing to sound authentic and be them. 
So yeah, planning, researching and just an almost not be afraid of getting something wrong. You know, that's part of the beauty of it, I think sometimes is you know, that conversation with clients and get getting it to where they want it to be as well as how you wanted to be. As copywriters, especially our group, you want it to be the best it can be for the client, like that's what they're asking for essentially. So, to be able to have that, you know, communication. It's so good to sort of be able to get a final product and you sit back and you think ‘That's what they wanted’. We're happy with it. They're happy. And yeah, it continues. It's a cycle, isn't it? 
Zachary Greaves 
It’s a two way thing. 
Ellie Robinson 
But yeah, and it's really rewarding. So, I'd say definitely, research and planning are probably my two top tips, I guess. 
Zachary Greaves 25:22 
Yeah, you can never do too much research. 
Ellie Robinson 25:25 
No, you can spend hours. 
Zachary Greaves 25:31 
And for us, I think that that's hopefully what stands us out as a business is the research and that investment of time that we have with clients, really getting to know them. And the, I'll say the word again, the nuances of their businesses which make them so different. 
Yeah, I think what you said about the fear of getting something wrong, not not being too afraid. You know, ultimately, language is subjective, no matter how much research you do or how much you're looking to cultivate in that tone of voice perfectly or emulating, rather, the tone of voice? Language is subjective. And, you know, if a client comes back to us and says, you know, ‘It's just not quite what we were looking for’, we'll work with it. And we will work with the client to get it spot on. 
Yeah. So, I think like you say, it's, it's a thing of beauty in itself is that and it's part of the joy of what we do. So, yeah, well put, well put, Ellie, love that! Thank you. And what about then, I suppose with your placement, what would your top tips for people who were in your position at just over a year ago be? And also, for people looking to get into the industry, as well? What would your top tips be for those people? 
Ellie Robinson 27:08 
I think, first of all, I'd say don't give up. I mean, it took me a good eight months to try and find a secure placement. I mean, I guess it might be a bit like, you know, finding a full time job. At one point, it was just, rejection after rejection, you know. So many people are going for the same role sometimes. You know, these big organisations and everything. And, you know, you get through the email first time around, and you're like, ‘Ah, okay, I obviously wasn't the right fit’. But, I think after the 30th rejection email, you kind of think, ‘Huh, something's not right’. 
But yeah, just carry on looking because, you know, I don't wan’t to sound cringy, but it's fate. You end up in the right role for you, the right position with the right people. And, you know, I think I feel like if I'd have given up and just said ‘Right, that’s it. I'm not doing a placement, I'm going straight into final year’, you know, I wouldn't have had this incredible opportunity. And I wouldn't have, you know, had the growth and everything that I have done. 
But definitely just, you know, carry on looking. I mean, add a personal touch to it. When you’re wanting to go to like into a role like copywriting, ultimately, you are storytelling, like we say all the time. So, you know, if you've got a CV, maybe, you know, make it a bit more personal and a bit more fun. I mean, I found you through LinkedIn, didn’t I, and it was more of like a personalised post about about me. So, just look on different platforms. 
Zachary Greaves 28:39 
Yeah, exactly. And that is what made you stand out, Ellie. You know, I read that and I thought, I need to speak to Ellie. We need to have that conversation, and I'm so pleased that I did. So, yeah, the power of social media for you. 
Like you say, you know, maybe a bit of fate thrown in there, too. 
Ellie Robinson 29:05 
But yeah, I mean, it's just, the world is - I know it sounds so silly, but the world is huge. There's so many opportunities out there. And, you know, I mean, when I started looking for a placement I didn't even specifically have, you know, just copywriting in mind. You know, like you, I was applying for journalism roles and sort of PR, which I'd never even thought about going for. But, you just never know what's around the corner. And you know, if you're passionate about it, then I feel like ultimately I'll you'll succeed in it. 
Zachary Greaves 29:41 
Fantastic. And what about getting into the industry itself, then or shall I rephrase that as preparing to get into the industry what what would you do? What do you wish you'd known about this role to help people prepare? 
Ellie Robinson 30:04 
Um, oh, gosh, that's a good question again, um, I feel like experience. People always ask for experience. And I feel like when you're just starting out, you know, you sort of think, ‘Well, if I'm just starting out how am I meant to have all this experience?’. But I feel like sometimes, that's not even necessarily like a job. You know, if you're writing for yourself, if you've got like, your own blog, or, you know, you just write for fun, like that is still experience. Your degree is still experience within that role. So yeah, just looking for just different ways how you'd excel in that role. I think experience but not necessarily a previous role in a job, if that makes sense. 
Zachary Greaves 30:52 
It does, yeah. I mean, I just think back to my work experience, I did a week at the week at the Whitby Gazette as a 16, 17 year old. I think, you know, it doesn't sound like much, but that having that week on my CV, has really helped me in so many different ways. And, and that experience, you know, I was really nervous going into that office. But yeah, it really helped me get a sense of what the world of work was all about, all in the space of a week. 
I’m quite similar. I mean, I had, like, the most rogue experience. I was at a solicitors and I was at an accountants. You know, just through contacts that my dad knows, just for experience before I even went to college. But to, like you said, just to have that on your CV is still iincredible. Just, it doesn't always have to be directly related to what you want to do. It can be anything. 
I remember, my Auntie, she's partly the reason why my CV was like it was, so I have to say thank you to her. But, you know, she always made me think she'd be like, ‘Oh, so you did experience at the solicitor?’ then she'd be like, ‘What did you do?’. So, you know, you explain what you've done. But then she's like, ‘Right, so how does that link?’. And as long as you find in that link, and you know why it works the way it works, you know, it's all gonna benefit in the long run. I don't think it matters what you do, is it all counts towards the same end goal. 
Zachary Greaves 32:37 
Ah, inspirational stuff, Ellie! I love it. So, I suppose Lastly, then, Ellie, really, as we as we start to wrap up. So, you go back to uni. And that's in October, 
October. Yeah. The first week of October. 
Zachary Greaves 32:59 
Great. And so what how's your final year looking? 
Ellie Robinson 33:05 
Good, good. I've chosen my modules, which are good. I cannot remember off the top of my head but they look fun. 
Zachary Greaves 
Something about Shakespeare? 
Ellie Robinson 
Yes, there is there's a module called Adapting Shakespeare, which is actually compulsory. So, I didn't have a choice with that one. But I've heard from friends, you know, I messaged them to find out what they did and what they enjoyed about different ones. So, apparently, it's quite good. And the lecturer she's lovely as well, who runs it so that's good. 
But yeah, I'm just like I said before, just looking forward to actually like getting on with it this year. You know, I feel like in a way, last year was my freshers. So, then sometimes it doesn't count that much. I was having fun, you know. But yeah, just looking forward to getting back into the community. I mean, Loughborough, you can't explain it to people. It's like such a community of people. It's so nice. And you know, you walk and you're bound to see someone that you know and stop and say hello. It’s definitely something that I've missed quite a lot. And I will miss when I finished uni. 
But yeah, I've been trying to think of some dissertation ideas, but I'm sure they'll come to me later. But yeah, I'm moving in with some of my best friends as well. So that'll be lovely. I'm really looking forward to it and obviously still, still doing a bit of copywriting which I'm also really looking forward to so keep my keep my foot in the door. 
Zachary Greaves 34:37 
For sure. Dissertation topic, what about warehouses in literature? How’s that? 
I was thinking of something a little bit different. No, I feel like I'll probably target it towards media. And we did a we did a really interesting module last year, which was called Fanfiction to YouTube, which sounds again really cringe. But it was actually really interesting. Sort of about like blogging and YouTube videos and how that's evolved during time. I feel like something along that angle might be quite interesting to write about. So, watch this space. 
Zachary Greaves 35:19 
I like the sound of that. I'm looking forward to reading it! 
Ellie Robinson 
I’ll send it through to you! 
Zachary Greaves 
Proofing, yeah! And what about your future career then, Ellie? Obviously, you've experienced this and, you know, you'll you'll be doing some freelance work, but long term? What are you hoping to do? Is there a specific angle within copywriting? Or you're looking for something completely different? What does the future look like for you? 
I mean, I think one of the most rewarding things about this placement is that finally, I've been able to discover what I actually want to do with my life after uni. Copyrighting and social media, and maybe even podcast editing in the near future. But yeah, it's just solidified what I want to do. 
People when I was younger, they'd be like, ‘I want to be like a nurse’, ‘I want to be a firefighter’. I want to do this, that and I always just, I never knew nothing ever sort of pulled me in. 
Zachary Greaves 
I was one of those people too! 
Ellie Robinson 
And so to be able to have had this year and figured out like a life path and a bit of like a vague plan as to what I want to do. It's just, yeah, it's been amazing, to be honest. So yeah, copywriting is, is in the future for me. I think, it’s what I'm good at and it’s what I enjoy. So, I feel like, you know, might as well continue with the journey. 
But yeah, I don't know. I mean, in a way, I never sort of know what's gonna happen tomorrow. So, just keep enjoying it really. That's the main thing that I want to do. And I feel like that's the main thing that you want to have in a job, you know, when you go into full time employment, it’s just something that you enjoy, and something that you wake up and you want to do it, you know. 
So, I mean, everyone has a day where they kind of wake up and you think, Oh, I don't want to get out of bed this morning. But, you know, to be able to open up your laptop and, you know, be surrounded by a group of people that, like, are like at Artus. You know, you've got that communication, you've got that community and you enjoy it, and you’re with people that also enjoy the job as well. So, yeah, I feel like as long as I carry on enjoying it, and I continue being okay at it, I'll be I'll be good. 
Zachary Greaves 37:53 
Well, you're more than okay at it. So just keep keep on that path, Ellie. And it's really lovely to hear how much you're enjoying it and how much it's informed your future career plans. Yeah, that really means a lot. 
And, again, I'd just like to say a big thank you for the last year in all of your hard work, dedication, and all you've achieved. So, I really hope it holds you in good stead for your final year of university. And I’m looking forward to continue working together, even after next week, which is your your last week, which is crazy. 
Ellie Robinson 38:37 
It’s flown by, hasn’t it? But yeah, thank you so much. I mean, I was saying the other day to my parents, I was like, it's just been such an incredible opportunity. You know, I feel like anywhere else that I'd have gone, I just wouldn't have got like the care and attention and the support that I've sort of had from you and the team and everybody around us like, it's just been so incredible. And yeah, just hope you get the chance to take someone else on, because if someone can feel the way I have this year, then yeah, it'll be amazing. 
Zachary Greaves 
Awh, your making me blush, Ellie! 
Ellie Robinson 
No, it's just really warm outside. 
Zachary Greaves 39:16 
It actually is for anyone who's wondering. Well, it's 27 degrees outside at the moment. One of the hottest days of the year. 
Wonderful, Ellie. Well, well, thank you so much. We’ll leave it there. But, it’s been really interesting just exploring what your learnings have been, how you've progressed and what your future plans are. So, I wish you the very best in your final year at university. 
Ellie Robinson 
Thank you, Zach! 
Zachary Greaves 
So invest in your own story with Words that Work which is free to listen to once a month on Apple podcasts, Spotify, and whatever podcast apps on your device. Head over to our website to learn more about our stuff. Thanks for listening, and we hope to see you soon! 
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